Broadcom only club?

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bobs
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Joined: 24 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:54    Post subject: Broadcom only club? Reply with quote
Broadcom only club?

Why is there a distinct lack of support for Atheros and other chipsets?

In todays world we require multiple WAN and link aggregation to get the speeds we need at a low cost.

Link aggregation from NAS to Switch to multiple Clients.

Multiple WAN for failover and load balancing.

Small business routers are now cheaper than the top end consumer 802.11ac routers. We can get these features on them cheaper than the gamers routers.

However, these features seem to be only supported on DD-WRT for Broadcom, why is there a preference to Broadcom given that most of the consumer routers on the market today do not use Broadcom, but use Atheros and Raitek or whatever.

At the very least, support Atheros more. Why no Link Aggregation and multiple WAN support on Atheros? Why Broadcom only?

This is driving me AWAY from using DD-WRT as a router firmware in the future and more towards small business routers and a separate AP for wireless needs (with DD-WRT in AP mode only).

DD-WRT is losing ground, DD-WRT is not keeping up with the market requirements and features.

Features desperately needed

1) Link Aggregation for keeping up with bandwidth demands. We are in the post-gigabit era in the home now.

2) Multiple WAN support via web page configuration.

3) Stop limiting features to Broadcom only when the market of routers is more and more Atheros based.
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Murrkf
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 18:35    Post subject: Reply with quote
Chips have certain capabilities, built into the chips. Thus chipsets sometimes cannot do what other chipsets can. Broadcom and Atheros are often very different chipsets. Do not confuse hardware capabilities with firmware choices.
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mwbuss8
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 18:52    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=902524

Atheros units with capable switches can do vlans through CLI, so it should be possible, hardware permitting. Users took the time to figure it out and post directions for broadcom, which could probably be modified. Most of them seem to be CLI and startup scripts.

DD-WRT gives consumer grade routers capabilities far beyond what they can do in stock form, but they're still consumer grade devices. If you feel you need a small business router then get one. As you said, they're cheaper than some consumer devices anyway. I've done that for two schools with dd-wrt APs with fantastic results.
bobs
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 20:04    Post subject: Reply with quote
mwbuss8 wrote:
http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=902524

Atheros units with capable switches can do vlans through CLI, so it should be possible, hardware permitting. Users took the time to figure it out and post directions for broadcom, which could probably be modified. Most of them seem to be CLI and startup scripts.

DD-WRT gives consumer grade routers capabilities far beyond what they can do in stock form, but they're still consumer grade devices. If you feel you need a small business router then get one. As you said, they're cheaper than some consumer devices anyway. I've done that for two schools with dd-wrt APs with fantastic results.


I know, but I want it via the web UI. I don't want to have to keep using command scripts for such a tasks.

I really need LINK AGGREGATION more than anything. Gigabit ports are not enough. 24 port managed switches are cheaper than some consumer AC routers for gawds sakes and they can do link aggregation up to in 8 per LAG.

I need to match the LAG on the router otherwise that is the bottleneck. LAG is a reality in the home. Consumer routers can do it. Not all routers are Broadcom, in fact most that I find on Amazon are either Atheros or Raitek or some other chipset and they can do LAG.

Multiple WAN is basically using more VLAN grouping instead of VLAN for WAN with 1 port and VLAN for LAN with rest of the ports. This can already be done on the firmware, it is just lacking the web UI.

I can get a 24 port managed switch for less than 100--200 Euro easily, I can get a DUAL wan business router for less than 60-150 Euro. That is cheaper than 802.11ac/ad dual/tri-band gaming routers.

Can somebody please tell me WHY LAG and Dual/Multi WAN is NOT done? Give a good reason instead of some advertisement trying to sell to the choir about DD-WRT and how good it is. I already use it. No need to sell it to me.

The answer usually is... buy Broadcom. Sure, fork over a few more hundred for a Broadcom router, no guarantee it will work with DD-WRT LAG and Multiple WAN.

Simply saying, do it with scripts, is not enough. We need a WEB UI.
LOM
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:38    Post subject: Reply with quote
bobs wrote:


I need to match the LAG on the router otherwise that is the bottleneck. LAG is a reality in the home. Consumer routers can do it. Not all routers are Broadcom, in fact most that I find on Amazon are either Atheros or Raitek or some other chipset and they can do LAG.



Name them

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bobs
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:34    Post subject: Reply with quote
LOM wrote:
bobs wrote:


I need to match the LAG on the router otherwise that is the bottleneck. LAG is a reality in the home. Consumer routers can do it. Not all routers are Broadcom, in fact most that I find on Amazon are either Atheros or Raitek or some other chipset and they can do LAG.



Name them


Qualcomm Atheros QCA9500 chipset can do it.


TP-Link AC7200 (Talon).


I am sure there are other that can also. That is just one I can think off on the top of my head.

Can you guarantee that Link Aggregation works on DD-WRT with Broadcom? I don't want to piss away more money on DD-WRT only to discover it is yet another feature that is missing/half implemented/script only/broken.

We need LAG because no way can a single gigabit port keep up with 802.11ac and 802.11ad routers and later 802.11ax.

Even stock firmware on consumer routers now are featuring LAG because NAS boxes ship with multiple LAN's ports with LAG and people have L2 "smart" (basically bottom end L2 managed) switches now with MANY ports to serve the media rich home. Managed switches are almost as cheap as multi-packs of cat6a/cat7 cables now.
LOM
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 13:44    Post subject: Reply with quote
bobs wrote:
LOM wrote:
bobs wrote:


I need to match the LAG on the router otherwise that is the bottleneck. LAG is a reality in the home. Consumer routers can do it. Not all routers are Broadcom, in fact most that I find on Amazon are either Atheros or Raitek or some other chipset and they can do LAG.



Name them


Qualcomm Atheros QCA9500 chipset can do it.


TP-Link AC7200 (Talon).


I am sure there are other that can also. That is just one I can think off on the top of my head.


You are going from "most of the routers I can find on Amazon" to just one specific router which is not out on the market yet. Nice back-pedaling there...

Both Broadcomm and Qualcom has announced new cpu's with eth phy speed higher than 1Gbps, cpu's which will appear in products later this year.
Which of them will be ddwrt supported and which of them will not be is completely up to the mfgrs who will have to provide samples for the porting.

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bobs
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Joined: 24 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 14:34    Post subject: Reply with quote
LOM wrote:
bobs wrote:
LOM wrote:
bobs wrote:


I need to match the LAG on the router otherwise that is the bottleneck. LAG is a reality in the home. Consumer routers can do it. Not all routers are Broadcom, in fact most that I find on Amazon are either Atheros or Raitek or some other chipset and they can do LAG.



Name them


Qualcomm Atheros QCA9500 chipset can do it.


TP-Link AC7200 (Talon).


I am sure there are other that can also. That is just one I can think off on the top of my head.


You are going from "most of the routers I can find on Amazon" to just one specific router which is not out on the market yet. Nice back-pedaling there...

Both Broadcomm and Qualcom has announced new cpu's with eth phy speed higher than 1Gbps, cpu's which will appear in products later this year.
Which of them will be ddwrt supported and which of them will not be is completely up to the mfgrs who will have to provide samples for the porting.


Considering DD-WRT website is loaded with "SPONSOR" adverts (that slow my browsing down on IE no less whilst the advert loads), with the huge PAY PAL donation on the firmware and website, with the "CUSTOM FIRMWARE" paid for service on the website..

I see no excuses for not having full time development and more focus on non Broadcom.

Given that DD-WRT and the controversy with Sveasoft's firmware, and now DD-WRT is locking down and doing their own Sveasoft (hypocrisy) manoeuvre against others that customise their own version. DD-WRT really has went into the crapper. History is repeating yet again.

If I wanted to use Broadcom ONLY devices, I wouldn't be using DD-WRT. I would be using other Broadcom ONLY firmware that has features that we need.

Every device I search for that I want to buy, seems to be using Atheros. Broadcom is overpriced. If I go Broadcom, I dump DD-WRT and use better firmware.
Jack82
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Joined: 26 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 19:29    Post subject: Reply with quote
How about documenting yourself first about the chipset names ? Raitek... Rolling Eyes whatever that is, you lost me right there.
muckerphuck
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:03    Post subject: Reply with quote
bobs wrote:

but I want


I think that says it all.

So whats the problem with a little bit of script? You do it once, setup done.

Also almost nobody uses dual wan that's why its not in the UI.

And how are we post gigabit in the home, when most users are under 100 Mb/s down connections. Most consumers are not even using 100 Mb of their Gb Ethernet. Its more like the post 1 Mb era.

If you are actually using that much bandwidth I would look at 10Gbe and not look back.

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LOM
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:39    Post subject: Reply with quote
bobs wrote:


If I wanted to use Broadcom ONLY devices, I wouldn't be using DD-WRT. I would be using other Broadcom ONLY firmware that has features that we need.

Every device I search for that I want to buy, seems to be using Atheros. Broadcom is overpriced. If I go Broadcom, I dump DD-WRT and use better firmware.


So you are actually here only to whine, right?
I did a count of cpu's in the Supported Devices wiki page:

Broadcom 227
Atheros 260
Qualcomm 25

Broadcom only club?

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bobs
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:41    Post subject: Reply with quote
LOM wrote:
bobs wrote:


If I wanted to use Broadcom ONLY devices, I wouldn't be using DD-WRT. I would be using other Broadcom ONLY firmware that has features that we need.

Every device I search for that I want to buy, seems to be using Atheros. Broadcom is overpriced. If I go Broadcom, I dump DD-WRT and use better firmware.


So you are actually here only to whine, right?
I did a count of cpu's in the Supported Devices wiki page:

Broadcom 227
Atheros 260
Qualcomm 25

Broadcom only club?


So where is Link Aggregation and Dual WAN features on Atheros

Btw, Atheros is now owned by Qualcomm.

The problem is FEATURES are missing/no UI/script only. Where is the UI for dual wan? People are having to resort to scripts. Where is the link aggregation UI? People are resorting to scripts.
bobs
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Joined: 24 Jan 2016
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:43    Post subject: Reply with quote
muckerphuck wrote:
bobs wrote:

but I want


I think that says it all.

So whats the problem with a little bit of script? You do it once, setup done.

Also almost nobody uses dual wan that's why its not in the UI.

And how are we post gigabit in the home, when most users are under 100 Mb/s down connections. Most consumers are not even using 100 Mb of their Gb Ethernet. Its more like the post 1 Mb era.

If you are actually using that much bandwidth I would look at 10Gbe and not look back.


A single NAS cannot serve multiple SMART TV's and computers in the home over a single gigabit port.

AC routers (and AD and following that AX) are into the multi gigabit era (AC3200, AC7200 etc).

If you can run a media home network from a single gigabit port serving multiple clients, I would like to see it. NAS's come with 2 LAN on the cheap end, 4 on the mid teir for bandwidth. Managed switches are not the realm of businesses, they are cheaper than AC "home" routers. Small business gear is CHEAPER than "home" AC routers for gwds sakes.

Not only that, LAG gives you failover, not just more bandwidth for concurrent connections. People want 4k media served to their 60" TV. You want to pump that down a gigabit port to a couple of screens?

Not to mention little johnny's tablet or phone VPN connetion to watch movies too.

People are wiring their homes for bandwidth and running VLAN's over them.

Sorry but once I go Broadcom, I go Tomato or some other firmware.

People that run DD-WRT and custom firmware, do not tend to have simple setups. They use DD-WRT for a reason. To get the features for range, connectivity and stuff. Now we need bandwidth.

We use LAG because 10GbE is overpriced naturally. That will change once 802.11ax takes root.

LAG gives us bandwidth with EXISTING switches and hardware and on the cheap. LAG gives us failover should a port fail.

24-port MANAGED switch, 100 GBP easy, 8 port managed switch, 20 GBP easy.

Consumer AC routers cost more than a 24-port managed bussiness switch ffs.

Dual WAN VPN business router, 50-150 GBP.

It is YOU that is behind, not the consumer. If you still think they run 100 Mbps, you're VERY wrong. They run smart TV's over fiber to the curb from their telco or cable operator to their 60" 4k Smart TV's. I can walk down the CHEAPEST poor streets and see 60" monster TV's in their living rooms that even I cannot afford.

As you pointed out, there is more QualComm Atheros chipset based routers on the market and in the homes than Broadcom, yet Broadcom tends to get the feature focus. The general response is 1) script it, 2) Buy Broadcom. That is not the right answer, it may be a solution but it is not the right one if 1) it is more expensive than a business router, 2) means buying yet more hardware to replace perfectly good existing hardware.

This is the problem with DD-WRT. The mind-set.
mwbuss8
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:24    Post subject: Reply with quote
bobs wrote:

A single NAS cannot serve multiple SMART TV's and computers in the home over a single gigabit port.

If you can run a media home network from a single gigabit port serving multiple clients, I would like to see it. NAS's come with 2 LAN on the cheap end, 4 on the mid teir for bandwidth. Managed switches are not the realm of businesses, they are cheaper than AC "home" routers. Small business gear is CHEAPER than "home" AC routers for gwds sakes.

This is the problem with DD-WRT. The mind-set.

I didn't quote your whole post due to length and repetition, but my NAS is a 5tb usb3 HDD connected to an AC1450 being used as an AP, and is currently tied into my network through a 100mbit switch (which I would like to upgrade). I use it with 3 smart TVs as well as my computer and phone. Admittedly I've only had 2 of the 3 TVs streaming at a time, but I've also transfered files to and from my computer with 2 of the 3 running. I've never had issues with the video, and the file transfers didn't seem to suffer a whole lot.

You keep comparing to business grade hardware. While dd-wrt brings a lot of possibilities through software, its still consumer grade hardware. You continue to reference future devices as a standard that dd-wrt should somehow be meeting presently, even though it has already been pointed out that you're doing so.

You say the two options are to script it or get broadcom. Have you looked at the guides for broadcom? As I mentioned before, most implementations there are through scripts as well. If you want features that are above and beyond what dd-wrt offers, the ability to use scripts is a feature to expand possibilities, learn to do it. Others have already done much of the heavy lifting.

LOM made no mention of devices on the market, he counted dd-wrt supported devices to show there are actually more atheros devices supported than broadcom, so it seems you're trying to twist his words to meet your agenda, and since you pointed out that Qualcomm and atheros are now one, QCA outnumbers broadcom on dd-wrt 285-227.

Dd-wrt's mindset conflicting with yours isn't really dd-wrt's problem, its yours. You talk like your presense here is a gift to everyone. It seems as if you joined the forum to complain, so I don't think the community would be left sobbing if you switch to business gear or a different firmware.
bobs
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Joined: 24 Jan 2016
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:40    Post subject: Reply with quote
mwbuss8 wrote:
bobs wrote:

A single NAS cannot serve multiple SMART TV's and computers in the home over a single gigabit port.

If you can run a media home network from a single gigabit port serving multiple clients, I would like to see it. NAS's come with 2 LAN on the cheap end, 4 on the mid teir for bandwidth. Managed switches are not the realm of businesses, they are cheaper than AC "home" routers. Small business gear is CHEAPER than "home" AC routers for gwds sakes.

This is the problem with DD-WRT. The mind-set.

I didn't quote your whole post due to length and repetition, but my NAS is a 5tb usb3 HDD connected to an AC1450 being used as an AP, and is currently tied into my network through a 100mbit switch (which I would like to upgrade). I use it with 3 smart TVs as well as my computer and phone. Admittedly I've only had 2 of the 3 TVs streaming at a time, but I've also transfered files to and from my computer with 2 of the 3 running. I've never had issues with the video, and the file transfers didn't seem to suffer a whole lot.

You keep comparing to business grade hardware. While dd-wrt brings a lot of possibilities through software, its still consumer grade hardware. You continue to reference future devices as a standard that dd-wrt should somehow be meeting presently, even though it has already been pointed out that you're doing so.

You say the two options are to script it or get broadcom. Have you looked at the guides for broadcom? As I mentioned before, most implementations there are through scripts as well. If you want features that are above and beyond what dd-wrt offers, the ability to use scripts is a feature to expand possibilities, learn to do it. Others have already done much of the heavy lifting.

LOM made no mention of devices on the market, he counted dd-wrt supported devices to show there are actually more atheros devices supported than broadcom, so it seems you're trying to twist his words to meet your agenda, and since you pointed out that Qualcomm and atheros are now one, QCA outnumbers broadcom on dd-wrt 285-227.

Dd-wrt's mindset conflicting with yours isn't really dd-wrt's problem, its yours. You talk like your presense here is a gift to everyone. It seems as if you joined the forum to complain, so I don't think the community would be left sobbing if you switch to business gear or a different firmware.


You're preaching to the choir. I already use DD-WRT I just want it to do more, I know it can do more.

There is nothing wrong with wanting more from firmware. If this is the reaction I get, tell me why the feck should I donate via PayPal? I did not join up to preach to the choir or be a fanboi, I joined to post issues I run into with the firmware. If you cannot handle that, then you don't deserve my money.

If it can be scripted, it can be facaded with a web UI. It doesn't take much to do a UI.
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